Comely, suave, cosmopolitan and cerebral, Reverend Chris Christian, the Shepherd of the Locus Army International Ministry, a global ministry with headquarters in Ajah, Lagos, is famed for being a eunuch with a vow of poverty. He lives just for the Word and service of mankind, unperturbed by the trappings of the world. The outspoken preacher spoke to journalists, including The Guardian’s ISAAC TAIWO, in Lagos recently on a variety of issues ranging from Christian persecution, current global wars, 2027 general election, commercialisation of churches in the country and his latest literary initiatives. In the light of the ongoing Israel-U.S. vs Iran war and other major wars around the world, he declared in the interview that “we are close to World War III.” Reverend Christian also believes that conspiracies in government circles are making the war against terrorism in Nigeria ineffective. He also stated that contrary to the opinion in some quarters, there is no deliberate Christian persecution in Nigeria.
With wars raging with ferocity across the world, from Russia vs Ukraine to Israel-U.S. vs Iran, and some countries being lured to join the fray by the major actors, are we not close to the dreaded World War III?
According to prophecy from eschatology to the apocalypse, we are at the time the Bible prophesied as the end-time. From Russia-Ukraine in Europe, Israel-Hamas, Israel-Hezbollah, Israel-Houtis, and now Israel-Iran with the involvement of America, the battles are becoming more aggressive, pointing to something that I am afraid might not really end. But we don’t need to be embarrassed as Christians, because it has already been prophesied. We only need to build shelters and take advantage of them. For everything that happens on earth, there is an advantage. Those who are looking up to this season should explore what the season provides and do the maximum.
What do you mean by exploring and taking advantage of the situation?
What I mean is that there is always a positive side to everything. When we look at what’s going on, we have to explore the positive part. That’s the pointer from prophecy. The prophecy has come ahead so that we can get ready and explore the positives. Everything is building up for the Third World War.
While Iran believes that Israel is a threat to the country and Islam, Israel, on the other hand, believes that Iran is a threat to its existence, the
Middle East and world peace. What do you make of these counter narratives?
We are looking at the past – the relationship between Israel and Persia. If you look at the history of Iran, before Ayatollah Khamenei, Iran was a socialist society before he turned it into an Islamic society. Wearing hijab, not allowing girls the same freedom as men in the streets and cracking down on dissidents are new things; there was nothing like that before. Mind you, Iran used to have a king; his son fled to America after his father was toppled. Before Ayatollah came on stage, Iran was an ally of Israel and also an ally of America. This standoff came because Ayatollah brought a different version of Islam to Iran. That new system, therefore, introduced new friends and new enemies. So, Iran sees America and Israel as threats.
If you are watching the war on television, you will keep hearing President Trump telling Iranians to stand up and take back their government. The U.S. is not really against Iran as a country and Iranians as a people, but against the bad government set up by the late Supreme leader, Ayatollah Khamenei. If you look at the recent demonstrations that happened in Tehran, there were many casualties. The people said they were tired of the government. So, Trump and Netanyahu believe that the land is suffering from wrong leadership and they can enforce mass participation in politics.
You are an apostle of a united Nigeria. The U.S. recently set up a military base in Bauchi, in the northern part of the country, which some northern leaders, including the Sultan of Sokoto, have opposed. They are saying, if there must be a military base for American soldiers, it must not be in the North. Does the location of the base really matter in the fight against terrorism?
What we should understand is that what they call terrorism is a channel. I am sorry to say Nigerians are not honest. If you look into the deep story of whether it is insurgence, banditry or any other thing troubling the country, it is hard to believe Nigeria can’t overcome them. Those of us who know the strength of Nigeria feel embarrassed, because that’s not the truth. It might take Nigeria just a week to wipe out the insurgents. These are young people without the expertise to sustain a battle. These are ragtag armies. So, Nigerians are not sincere. It is chiefly politics. What is happening in Nigeria is chiefly politics. We should tell politicians to stop playing politics with the lives of the people. That’s just the truth.
I overheard somebody say: how could Nigeria stop insurgencies in Borno when they were making money from it? Frankly, they don’t want it to end, because they are making money from it. What America is trying to do is go help ordinary Nigerians, because those at the helm of affairs are destroying the country for their selfish interests. They should call a spade a spade. God is angry with them, because this has to end. It is a bad government. The news was everywhere that Buhari said, prior to contesting the 2015 presidential election with Jonathan, that the blood of monkeys and baboons would be soaked with blood if he didn’t win. It was reported that he brought some militants to the country from outside Nigeria who were detailed to fight in the event that Jonathan won. That was why Jonathan congratulated Buhari even before the vote counts were completed. He was panicking and ran away from Aso Rock. Now, Buhari is dead, and the people who were invited to fight for him have remained with us as bandits.
My greatest joy is that Nigeria is a country of God. God is happy with Nigeria. We are a big country in Africa with over 200 million people. It cannot break. The breaking up of Nigeria can’t favour anybody, neither those of us from the Southeast nor the Southwest. Our population of 200 million-plus makes us the giant of Africa, and it favours us; we are brothers; and we have blended together.
I am not sure America understands what’s happening in Nigeria; that’s why they believed it was difficult for Nigeria to win the battle. That’s why America came in, but we are lying to ourselves. How can anybody say the touts ravaging the nation are too difficult to be defeated? Nigerians have dark minds and are wicked. Money is everything to them. Maybe they want to get some money from America. America is watching the situation from afar. We are not helpless. We are under subjection. We are deceived.
There are many denials about Christian persecution in Nigeria. Some attribute the killings in the North to farmer-herder clashes and little of Christian persecution, which informed the recent U.S. intervention in Nigeria. How genuine is Christian persecution in Nigeria, especially in view of what’s happening in the Middle Belt?
I think if the issue is approached from an intelligent ground, and looked at the way religion should be looked at, we would have no problem. Some claim they want to make Nigeria an Islamic nation. It is not possible, but it is hard to do. If you go to the northern part of Nigeria like Borno, Kaduna, and parts of Kano and Sokoto, they have Christians there. It should not be seen as prosecution but misunderstanding – something that happens when two brothers fight. When Boko Haram came, and there were killings, Boko Haram was, even till date, still killing everybody. In the North, some Boko Haram members kill their parents. If they introduce politics into it there will be more polarisation. So, it’s incorrect to say Christians are targeted.
Are you trying to say that what’s happening in Benue, Plateau, Nasarawa and some other parts of the country is not Christian persecution?
The Christians are not as weak as you may think. We are almost 50-50 in population. What’s happening is simply politics and personal interests. Those in charge who should bring lasting solutions want to make gains.
So you are saying that Christianity is not under threat in Nigeria?
I am a pastor, and I can tell you there is nothing like that. If there is a misunderstanding, it affects everybody. Remember I set out in Kano as a preacher. Kano people are more honest than other northerners. Anytime they want to bring confusion, the indigenes will say they don’t want it; they will resist it.
Is it a recent thing or they have always been like that?
It has always been like that. Don’t forget, I have had about 35 years experience in Kano, and I can tell you that Kano has not had a long period of misunderstanding as you can find in some parts of the North, because the indigenes always refuse to join the fray. When Governor Ganduje was there as the state governor, he ensured that there was peace in Kano. He even invited Enoch Adeboye of the Redeemed Ministry to come and preach there; he assured them they accept Christianity. I think that some things are individualised. We should be realistic and not generalise. That does not mean there is something that is irregular going on; some selfish things do happen. The kidnappings in Kwara State, for instance, are politically motivated.
You mean the jihadist claims against Christians are unfounded?
It’s not possible for that to happen in Nigeria. The population is equal and all sides are very strong. I don’t see a genuine Hausa man who bothers himself about Islamising anybody. It is not their ambition. A few of them might have it, just as we go to the North to evangelise and build churches everywhere.
So, who are those people using guns to kill people with reckless abandon in the Middle Belt?
They are not Muslims; they are touts. They are not Muslims. You cannot say the Fulani herdsmen killing people are representing Islam. They are representing their interests. So you cannot generalise. A lot of Igbos married Hausas, and Hausas have married Igbos. It’s based on love. And then, some people are trying to use what a few people are doing to paint a general picture of evil.
We are barely 10 months into the presidential election; do you feel a sense of change in the air?
We want change but change is not possible. President Tinubu is a master politician. Just look at what’s happening in the South East now: Obi Cubana and his men in the City Boys Movement are mobilising voters for Tinubu. Some people are trying to overlook them, but they have already divided Igbo votes. Naturally, an Igbo man prefers what he can get as an individual rather than the collective. Peter Obi’s problem with the Labour Party is not also helping matters. He is the strongest opposition candidate now. We are not even sure whether ADC would give him the presidential ticket, because Atiku Abubakar and Chibuike Amaechi are equally strong contenders.
Are you saying there may not be a change in 2027?
Don’t rule out the finger of God, but, under normal circumstances, Tinubu should return to power. He is doing the work already. If he retains the vice president, who has a voice in the North, I don’t think any aspirant should challenge. If Tinubu came from outside the presidency to win the election in 2023, I don’t think his kind of intelligence and wisdom as an incumbent would make him lose the 2027 election. That would be so degrading. I don’t think anybody stands any chance against him. Again, Tinubu has won the Yoruba nation to his side with political appointments, so he has gotten the acceptance he didn’t get before. I am thinking that what should concern us is what would happen after Tinubu has done another four years (laughs). I am going to be honest to myself.
Obi Cubana and other prominent Igbo young men are being criticised by Obi’s supporters for selling out with the City Boys Movement. They believe they should have joined hands to realise the first Igbo president. Did they in any way err?
If they want to criticise Obi Cubana, they should also look at the trajectory of Peter Obi as a state governor under APGA. He later joined PDP; from there to the Labour Party and now ADC. Does it not speak about politics? If that’s correct, I think that everybody’s entitled to his political party.
Are you not worried by the commercialisation of faith in Nigeria?
Everything has its time. What they call commercialisation has solved a problem already, because it has created awareness. So, commercialisation of churches is a good development in Nigeria. God is looking at it, and from a prophetic direction, we are making a U-turn gradually.
What about the proliferation of churches in Nigeria, because we have more churches in Nigeria than anywhere in the world now…
Don’t forget Nigeria has a lot of active Christians in the world more than anywhere else. If God is talking about his programme on earth, you cannot overrule Nigeria. Proliferation of churches is just like business. Somebody created an inspiration, another person is inspired to form another church. If God has given you support, you should prosper. And if God hasn’t given you support, I don’t think we should be worried.
How do you guide against financial fraud in the church, which is becoming alarming these days?
When there is structure, there is protection. You guide against fraud from structure. When there is structure, everybody knows his place. And then anything that does not come out of this place is illegal and should be knocked off. And illegality is suspicious. Everything that is protected is protected from the structure.
Don’t you think there is a link between poverty and the astronomic rise in the number of churches in Nigeria. The crowds we see in Nigerian churches are no longer seen in European churches that introduced Christianity to us. Has it got to do with hunger and unemployment?
No! God, who is being talked about in the church, has to function with men through the way they are, through their level of development pattern. So, God is using Nigerians, the way they are, and they should not do; we don’t talk about Europe and America, but another one’s going to church because they are not inspired.
They should start that in church as seeking, as an act of God. You don’t serve God because you have need. Serving God is like somebody who is blessed like Abraham. Abraham wasn’t a poor man. He was a father of faith. So, people ought to know Nigeria is the hope of God, because the Holy Ghost is inspiring us. That’s why we haven’t abandoned the church. Those who abandoned the church have also abandoned God. So, the next move of God in the world is going to be Nigerian based. It is already happening. Nigeria is a country of God. The gospel truth is that God is building a crown in Nigeria. Nigeria is a trigger of Africa and the destiny holder of the Blackman. People should know that and they should not joke with that. The cries of the poor have been heard by God, and he is transforming Nigeria to fit into His prophetic agenda. And then, it’s not a job like what happened at the time of it, like when somebody came, they’re perfect.
With over 500 books, you are one of the most prolific authors in the world; do you have new books in the offing?
I have written more than 500 books and I am printing 42- 45 new books in preparation for the forthcoming Pastors’ Retreat in the South East this Easter for church workers, leaders, prayer warriors, ministers, prophets, apostles, and evangelists. It will last for 10 days between April 15 and 24. People will come from all over Nigeria and Africa. It is a time to retreat and go before the Lord, ask questions, get revelations, healings, and mental upliftment, reexamine ourselves, and find a way of doing it better.
Is it open to everybody?
If we want to make it private, we can always do that; but everybody is welcome to Umuchu in Aguata. That’s where the camp is located. It has been there for 25 years. We have many houses and we have a big cathedral there. When people come, we quarter them for 10 days, and there is free feeding and free book distribution. All the people who come there testify about it. It is a time of spiritual upliftment, revival, and getting direction from God for the new season.
You have recently added “professor” to your title. This is a new one, isn’t it?
It happened last year. I have received a lot of honorary doctorates. Last year, an American university – the University of International Entrepreneurship, USA, approached me; you know, they saw my books; they liked the church and the apostolic movement, and were eager to honour me with a doctorate, but they changed it to a professorship on the strength of what they saw in me. I appreciate the honour bestowed on me.
With the giant strides you have made so far as an author, are you not thinking of being a part-time lecturer?
You know, there are different callings. I am trying to move towards being a monk. I do a lot of withdrawing. I am moving more into God. So, I won’t be a lecturer anytime soon, though I run a Bible school for mature minds; I won’t be secular anytime.
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